not this cute anymore!I missed last week's Tuesday Tell All topic and I like it.. so I'm gonna. And today is a special GRADUATION day for my little sis who is finishing high school! Way to go CINDY LOU!! She is coming to Vegas for her graduation trip and I can't wait!! Party, party, party!! It's been ten years since my high school graduation and I feel like it's been forever since then-- and other times it feels like yesterday. I will have to do a top ten high school countdown when it gets closer to our reunion-- in August. Today I am going to reminisce about my Graduation from BYU.
Finishing college was NOT easy, but I think that's mainly because I was trying to juggle a million things at once AND had two little babies! At my graduation, Ben was 2 and Luke was 6 months.. I officially walked in August (only so we could live in BYU housing through the summer) but I finished when Luke was 3 months old. Yes, he was born during my last semester. I seriously took a few days off school to have a baby!! What was I thinking? But he was such a gift and came at the right time. He let me do all my school work and somehow made my crazy life less chaotic. Aaron was also my biggest fan and REALLY helped me through it all. There is no way I could have done it without him. We loved our experiences in Provo.. We made friends that we will keep in touch with until we die and we enjoyed the "bubble life" while it lasted. We were living 10 minutes away from my in-laws and enjoyed being close to them. We did our wash at their house every Sunday and it's so fun to look back on these pictures. We lived in a 600 sq ft apartment (and LOVED it) had two little toddlers and we did our wash and the parents place! How did we manage? and why were we smiling??? Seriously! I have no idea why we were so happy!
Anyway, back to the graduation. I decided to get a gown and walk ONLY because Aaron didn't do it for himself (not at BYU or for Law School..) and I wanted to have some type of official documentation. The ceremony was boring, but I appreciated my parents, the in-laws and our sisters coming out to support me. I don't remember ANYTHING about that day except these two things:
#1- We ate at Cafe Rio afterward (because we weren't sure if we would ever live by one again.. little did we know Vegas would come to our rescue!)
#2- While sitting through the graduation ceremony, the only thing I could think about was how much I DIDN'T learn.
Seriously, I was sitting there thinking that I pretty much paid for a diploma. I did all the work, I got good grades and I learned absolutely nothing. I worked my butt off and I am so happy that I finished, but it was at that moment that I realized I had never received an education. This was my first spark of a desire to learn-- really learn something! I also received an understanding that I could teach my kids things that I never got to learn myself. Of course, I didn't decide to officially homeschool until about 2 years later, but I actually think I started that day. I began devouring books.. anything I could get my hands on (because now I actually had time to read what I WANTED to read.) And I enjoyed it so much!! I also started working with my kids and I realized that I had the opportunity to ignite a fire within them to LOVE to LEARN.
I have no idea why it was at my graduation ceremony that these feelings came, but I often wonder where I would be if I had NOT had the opportunity to sit quietly and reflect about my own schooling experience. The day of my graduation was the beginning of my education and I am very grateful for the thoughts that came to me during that ceremony. Looking back, I believe it was inspiration, but at the time I thought it was ironic that I went to reflect on what I had accomplished only to realize that I knew NOTHING. Graduation really is a beginning.. as everyone tells you!
Although I will encourage my children to get as much schooling as they possibly can, I do not think a college institution is the only place to get educated. If my children want to become plumbers or mailmen or doctors, I will be happy for them... as long as they have passion for learning new things and enjoyed how they spend their time. Money or professions will never make us happy unless we feel like what we are doing is fulfilling and inspiring. School is hard and expensive and time consuming but that doesn't mean it teaches you anything. But there is NO DOUBT about it that it opens doors for you and can give you greater opportunities that you might not have if you didn't put in the time. I am proud of Aaron for getting through law school (because there is no WAY I could have done what he did) but I do not take pride in him having a "higher profession" and I really hope I don't come across that way.
I have had a couple of people make fun of the statement under my profile that states: "I am married to a handsome attorney." I just wanted to clarify that by saying that, I am NOT saying we are rolling in money and enjoying life with the rich and famous. I don't care if we ever make money. We drive old cars, live in a small townhouse and don't have a SINGLE piece of new furniture. Seriously, when thinking about moving, I just want to throw away everything that we own because it's not worth paying for a moving van to haul it.. We need to light a match and have a big bonfire with everything we own.
It honestly scares me to picture us with our student loans paid off, living in a house of our own and driving cars that actually work. I really don't ever want to get to a point in my life where those things matter, because they don't. I grew up in a very humble home where my parents sacrificed (and still do) to raise a big family. And I appreciate the lessons I learned as a child that taught me that having THINGS is not important. I get scared thinking about making a good living because it will be hard teaching your children that the most important things in life aren't THINGS. It will be much harder to say "no" when you have the monetary means to say "yes".. I really, really want my children to appreciate working hard for what they have.
Neither Aaron or my parents helped us financially through school. I am sure if either of them could have, they would have.. but at the same time, there is something really satisfying knowing that we did it on our own. We sacrificed a lot and lived off NOTHING so that I could stay home with the kids and he could finish school. So when I say I am married to a handsome attorney, I am saying that I am proud of what my husband has been able to accomplish in our marriage.. not that I am flaunting how much money we make or how perfect my life is.. because that is far from the truth.
What I wish is that we (meaning women in general, but not excluding men) could break away from comparisons and labels. Why do we feel like we have to try hard to be somebody or be better than anyone else? I know this is a totally different discussion and I want to get more into this topic when reviewing Eckhart Tolle's A New Earth (from Oprah's book club.. that I happen to LOVE.) but this post is already L-O-N-G and random enough.. so I am going to stop. I just hope that everyone out in the vast Internet world knows that I am not trying to be someone I am not. I know it's hard to come across as REAL and relate-able in the blogging world, but if we can't uplift each other and want what's best for one another, then why even spend time doing it?
Posts
28 comments:
I'm lucky to really know you. Although the real you is all over this blog...down to earth, optimistic, funny, sassy, creative, energetic, real, loving, wild and fun!
I hate labels and comparisons too. It drags you down and depresses you. We should be happy for one another. After all we're all striving for the same goals.
Keep on keepin on. Love you girl!
We didn't have any help paying for schooling and housing either, and I think it has made us a stronger couple. Don't get me wrong, back then I wished one of our parents would have helped us, but now that we are at this stage, I am so glad that we struggled through it together. It made us have a stronger marriage.
I went to BYU - but never finished. It is something I really regret and it's hard for me to see people like you who had two babies but did it anyway. I've always wanted to go back and get my degree, but I've questioned my motivations many times. I think I want it just so I can say I'm a college graduate. Is that bad? I know I don't NEED to go to school and PAY to learn - I can learn and expand my mind in so many ways on my own. But I have to admit that I like the idea of having a degree. If you didn't learn anything at BYU, why did you work so hard to finish? (and aren't you glad you did?) Sometimes the idea of staying at home and raising children sounds so much more admirable if you are a well educated woman who has all the opportunity in the world to do whatever you want, but you CHOOSE to be a homemaker. Now I sound like I'm someone who cares about labels and appearances. Maybe I do a little bit. Thanks for rehashing this debate in my head that has been going on for 10 years. Something to think about.
Interesting comment, JaNae. I think I finished because I lived on campus, qualified for financial aid, and would be kicking myself for not doing it.. so I did. I know I didn't do it to learn and that's why I didn't learn. I guess you could say that I am glad I graduated.. I think I might feel a little more self-conscience about homeschooling if I didn't have some type of degree, but that's exactly where all the LABELING comes in. Who says that a piece of paper makes you qualified or smart or a hard worker? I think our society places too much emphasis on degrees (and now they are getting more extensive and EXPENSIVE than they used to be..) but I really don't think you should do it just to do it. Take a class at the community center in something that interests you... but unless you really want a profession that requires a degree, I wouldn't go back.
And everyone talks about having a degree so that when your husband dies you can support yourself better.. I that might be partially true, but definitely not in every case. There are so many people who can make a great living without any education-- I think being able to relate with people and feel confident about yourself makes you a lot more qualified for the career world.. but that's not everyone's opinion.
I really liked reading this post and people's comments so far. I only completed two years of college and quit when I got pregnant with the twins. Everyone on the outside was pushing me to get a degree, but on the inside I didn't want to be there. I really didn't have a passion to get a degree in anything, and I felt like it was a waste of my time and money. The only thing I wanted to do was be a mom and stay at home with my kids. I got straight A's in high school and college but like you said, didn't really learn very much. When I quit, suddenly I was so hungry to read and learn about things that interested me. At that point my passion for learning was night and day compared to my desire to learn while in school. I sometimes feel a little sheepish admitting that I homeschool and didn't finish college in the same sentence. But ultimately, I know how to learn, and that means I can do anything I set my mind to.
Oh, and Joe didn't walk in his undergrad or law school graduation either!
I am one of the ones who poked fun at the comment. I'm so sorry Janet. I know you are such a sweet person and have always been kind to me.
The reason I mentioned it (sans your name) on my blog was because of my feelings about labels. And it did come across to me that way. But I apologize-I should have given you way more credit than that.
I live in a West Valley revamped HUD home that we put a TON of time and energy into to stay out of debt. Clay and I are big into that. But it is really hard sometimes because it seems every where I go with girlfriends, so much is about where you live, what you have, how you look, the car you drive, etc. I don't consider myself a materialistic person, but it's really hard not to get caught up in that when it seems that is all that's out there. It makes me almost feel abnormal for not being obsessed with all the newness and the latest this and that.
I guess that was just my way of pushing back at it all. I LOVE the rundown neighborhood I live in. I am reminded very day of how blessed I really am and to do my best with what I have. We are here to flip the property in a year, but this is most people's "final home." My little boy goes to school with refugees and I am friends with many moms who barely speak english.
It's just an up-in-my-face thing all the time and I just so despise the flaunting. Forgive me for my assumption.
Loves, Linds
i totally agree with you. education can open doors but it isn't always the best way to learn. i hate sitting in the classroom. i always thought i learned so much more while i was traveling russia and europe and all the other places. i love doing hair, and i am starting a cupcake business, i have too many businesses i think, but i love doing all this stuff, it's fun to me not work and if i can make money at it too, then great, if not then at least i am happy doing it....like you said that is what counts. i'm with you, burn baby burn, if you really do that to your furniture take lots of pictures! =) ha ha
labeling someone who has money (as stuck up or shallow) is the EXACT same as judging someone for being poor. It doesn't really allow us to get to know the person.. and that is really unfortunate. Of course, this is a subject for another time!
Tatum-- I didn't know you were doing a cupcake biz! I want to order! You can do ANYTHING because you have a good head on your shoulders! Email me and let me know how things are REALLY going-- not just what you put on your blog :)
I loved this post! I laugh when people make comments about how we will be "rolling in the dough" or "have it made" when we finish law school. It all seems so uncertain and frightening. Our student loan debt frightens me, I don't know how we will ever pay it off! We are paving our own way through school as well, and it is hard. I hate that I feel embarrassed when catching up with old friends who have new homes and a lot of nice things. It's so embarrassing to be on Medicaid and Food Stamps, live in an old apartment, and have to get scholarships to participate in activities like swim lessons and summer camp. I just have to keep reminding myself, there is a time and a place. Thanks for being so real about things. You guys seem to be very wise financially.
Janet--I graduated in 1998 too! Can you believe it's been 10 years? You seem way more wise than I am....
Anyway, I think this topic is a cool one that does spark some debate (and I like debate). There are so many feelings that are conjured up regarding education and status. It is sad when some people who are educated think they are better than those that aren't.
So I don't think that college is necessary to be successful or to be a good person (obviously). I don't think someone is better than another for going or that it is the right thing for every person. I work with kids that have disabilities and there is no way they could make it through college. But they can be successful and they can learn a trade and they shouldn't feel less... they are productive members of society and a lot of them will make more $$ than I ever will!
With that said, I think an education--whether it's college or trade school--is really important, especially for woman. I don't really care what it is that you can do, but it's important to be skilled in something so that you can work if you 1) have to, or 2) want to. And if a woman has an education and never works outside of the home, she is putting that education to the best use possible--raising her kids.
When I was an undergrad at BYU there were lots of classes where I wasn't interested and just jumped through hoops for the deploma. I guess you could say I didn't learn in those classes (and don't remember much of them).
On the other hand, there were other classes that were so interesting to me, that I learned so much in, and that I couldn't even sell the book back because I enjoyed it so much.
Because of that deep interest I wanted to learn more and went to graduate school, which is where I can honestly say I learned something from each class. I could focus my time and attention on that specific topic that really interested me, where I was motivated to learn, and where I was given hands-on experiences to practice what I had learned. I cherish that experience!
But honestly, the biggest learning for me has been the past 5 years of working in my field of study. For me, I couldn't have become what I wanted to be without going to school so it was necessary and I knew that. I feel like I learned more because it was applicable to a job I was going to have.
I have many friends who never went to college or never graduated that are 10x smarter than me, read 10x more than me, and know sooo much more than me.
They also make a lot more than me also! So for me college really wasn't to become rich, but was an avenue to do the thing I wanted to do. So like you said, if you can do what you want to do without going to college, cool.
Sorry--that was kind of a long post. Thanks for posting on this topic.
Andrea (hoosier mama)
What I would give to be back on Medicaid and foodstamps. Seriously! Doctor bills are expensive! Being in school has a LOT of benefits.. This past year has been shocking to us because we didn't get a spring break!! and Christmas vaca had to be cut to a weekend... we were going through withdrawls without three weeks off! But I guess everyone has to grow up sometime.
And Andrea P. amen, amen, amen.
Great post Janet. I love this topic too. I didn't go to any of my college graduations, which my Mom told me I would regret-- I went to the Bahamas with girlfriends instead, and I definately have never regreted it. I really felt like I learned a ton in college, or maybe like you, it was the beginning of learning how to learn.
I think it's because I chose literature as a degree. At first, I felt a little embarassed telling people that English lit. was my major, because it felt a little like a degree that you can't really do anything with, but I just loved all of my English classes early on, so decided to study what I loved most, and what came easiest for me. I guess in a way it didn't really challenge me like a math degree (or some other subject I'm hopelessly pathetic in) would have. But I made such great connections with my professors and other students. It felt like being in college just gave my mind room to grow and develop.
I agree with you that college can be overly expensive and hyped up though. I think there is nothing wrong with starting at a small school, or wherever you can get a scholarship etc... and just work your way into it. Anyway...I could say lots more on this topic but I've already gone on long enough!
Sadly I feel the same way... i got a degree, but don't feel like I got an "education." I too wish I would have taken the opportunity to actually learn something - not just regurgetate (sp?) info for tests and exams (both in high school and college). Why is it that we figure that out AFTER schooling is over!?!
CONGRATS to your baby SIS, and to you for finishing college under such hard circumstances! I had to make a goal that I wouldn't get married until after college, because I knew I wasn't strong enough to do both- very commendable! (Not that it was easier having six boyfriends at once...but it kinda was)
I think that college (or some other type of higher education) is fundamentally important, and not a choice, but a requirement. I was the first, and still remain the ONLY college graduate in my family- hopefully not for good! (There are onley 3 grads in my Dad's entire extended family- and I was the first- crazy!). It's a blessing to go, and worth every dime to finish- no matter what the cost. Education is meant to bless the lives of our children, and ourselves. Learning- SHEESH- it's all I get to take with me (when I die and go to the middle kingdom- if I'm lucky).
Especially for women, mothers, whether you are at home with children, or working- this is a crucial skill. (especially since we all know how CRAZY kids make us- we need to bring the LOGIC back that we've learned so we dont go off the deep end!)
I think we all feel like the learning ONLY BEGAN at graduation- but the skills were learned in the classroom- and that is really all college has the capacity to do- teach us HOW to learn, so that we KEEP learning. So, you were a college success!
I am thankful everyday for my education because of how much it blesses my family. Thank goodness I can go out any day of the week, and get a job that pays the bills!
Can't wait to see what you write about A New Earth- also one of my goodies. Oprah does a show with Eckhart on XM that I listen to all the time- GREAT!!
and, I wanted to tell you how funny it is that you mentioned labels in your post, mixed in there with the other stuff- my next post is all about labels too! Gotta get that one done! I've beel slackin!
I'm back for more of this topic (thanks Janet)...Dee, I loved your comment!
I really liked reading this post and the comments, although I had to admit my thinking is completely the opposite. I WASN'T that great of a student in High school and only really got it together the end of my Junior year into my Senior year. I always knew that I wanted to go to college and that a degree was SO important to me. My parents struggled when I was younger and I watched my dad who had ALL the experience he would need for the jobs he was working, get laid off time and time again because he didn't have a degree. He finally finished it going to night school when I was 12 and I couldn't have been more proud. When Scott and I got married it was also VERY important to him that I finished my degree, in fact he told me before we got married that he ABSOLUTELY would not marry me unless I promised him that I would finish. It was SO important to him that if something EVER did happen to him, I would be able to survive with our family and not have to try to go back to school and raise a family on my own. As we made our plans for Scott to go to law school, I NEVER had the desire or inclination that I would be a stay at home mom. I only started out being a stay at home mom because during Scott's first year of law school I was working online and finishing my degree online. I finally graduated in May after his first year. After finally learning how to be a student and learning how get things out of my classes I wanted more. I WANT to go to law school or get some other sort of maters degree and WORK, but something in Spokane changed my perspective: It was the many other girlfriends that were being stay at home moms, who were also smart, and talented, and made me realize that I didn't want to fail with my family more than I wanted to be successful in a career. I still struggle with this because I DO still want to have a career and do the things that I LOVE to do outside the home. I guess what I am saying is that I WANT the label, but only for me, not because I care about how other people feel about it. I NEVER tell people what my husband does unless they ASK-I want the label for me, but I don't want to share it with others for them to judge us by.
(Sorry I made this HUGE comment on your blog Janet, I thought it would be shorter...very theraputic though!)
Janet, I seriously love all of your insight! I did the same thing as you and finished school with 2 little ones, which was really hard, but I miss the free financial aid, WIC, etc. You don't realize how much they help until you're out in the real world! I was lucky enough to bounce around majors (in most of which I learned nothing) until I got to the major I graduated in, which was Human Development and Family Studies. I loved it because it applied to my life then and still does. I still use things that I learned about child development in raising my children today. As for the labels topic, I try to steer clear of if because unfortunately where I live right now, it seems as if it is a big competition to have bigger and better of everything! I guess 2 incomes helps, but I would rather be home with my kids than have 4 wheelers and super nice washer/dryer sets! I think it's great that Aaron is a lawyer. I hope that he enjoys it! Are you thinking about going to the mission reunion in Madrid at all? I think it's next year. We thought about it and now that I'm pregnant again, it isn't gonna happen!
I wasn't going to comment, but then I came to your blog (I copied your blog address to send to Shannon) and saw your comment "lecture" and so here I am :)
I've loved reading this discussion.
I myself didn't learn anything in high school even though I got good grades, so when I got to college I was shocked at how much I didn't know and I learned a ton in college (even if I have purged some things). I have a masters degree and am a CPA, which I worked hard for and am very proud of. At the same time, I don't want praise from others and realized later on that the most important title is mother. I am glad we only rely on one working income and pretty soon only a part-time income, but that is because I learned about investing on my own and not in college. I too get wrapped up in all of the labels and beat the Jones'type feelings and sometimes I just want to go back to my roots and move to Chile and live a humble happy life. But I don't think I need to move to another country to get away from it all, but I think it's just self control and not letting myself get all wrapped up in all the materialism, which can be hard. I'm so thankful for my education, but what I have learned outside college is what is truly most important to me.
Thanks for the post and I love your blog!
Wow! People have so much to say about graduation.
It's funny for me. I graduated with my BS in health promotion and now I am back in school to get my associates in Nursing (I know it sounds backwards).
But some of my class mates don't understand why I would go back and why I don't just work with my BS. But honestly, I love learning and I agree with Dee it's a blessing and a great opportunity that we have. Although I wish I would retain more information that is pertinent to life, instead of stupid lyrics from the radio or movie quotes.
That's funny that people interpreted your comment about a handsome attorney husband as bragging. I always tell people that my husband is hot. I don't usually add that he is a juvenile probation officer but who cares if I did. I hate labels. It's too bad that people spend so much time worrying about labels instead of where are crazy world is headed.
Sorry! I got really excited to post my comment and hit the button twice so I had to erase one.
I get bugged when people don't tell me that and I am stuck wondering why something was erased. And what it said.
OK, so Jon came home today, and had to review the blog, as usual. He's just as into this as I am, but hates to admit it. He was surprised and shocked when reading all of the comments above, and we got to talking more. Of course, I can see that everyone is interested in a little friendly discussion about the monsters we have become when it comes to the subject- and I feel strongly about the topic too. There's a view to this that everybody has missed, and of course, leave it to me to bring it up...read these closely- they all have a common thread. Guys- how could we be so blind?
If I were an outsider looking in, we would look like the silliest group of suburban housewives... reminiscing about our 'apartments' and the 'days we USED to have medicaid' and how we 'stay home with our kids because we don't need fancy cars, or fourwheelers'- do we even see what we're saying? That we are cutting out the extras, not the essentials. This sounds like a group of people WHO HAVE IT ALL. I can't really take this seriously coming from the people who have the labels- it's always easy to not need it once you have it, or to have all the bases covered and be proud that we are doing without some totally over the top luxuries. The college we all took for granted, that we look down our noses at the quality of- IS A DREAM for a lot of people who will never get the chance to go, and will have hard and challenging, and maybe even poverty stricken lives because they don't even have a chance at getting a better life started for themselves and their families.
I'm not exlcuding myself here- I just had a moment of clarity, and I wanted to bring it back up. We are all the lucky ones who have it all, and by saying it doesn't mean anything is a real slap in the face to the people who are out there trying to make something more of themselves. Say what you will about hating the labels- it seems as if all of us would die without them to define us- look, we can't even stop talking about them- we say we hate them in the same sentences that we gracefully display them.
Now HERE where we go into a totally different discussion.. and that has everything to do with A New Earth and EDUCATION, and hardly anything to do with schooling. I have read the book twice and have listened to it's entirety on audio CD as well as participated in the webclasses.. with that said I believe I have only learned a small portion about how much I need to change.. this is just the tip of the iceberg. I could seriously go on and on, but I am not going to because this is in a comment box and it deserves it's own post.. or a week or month of posts, so I am going to leave it at that. For now.
As far as looking down upon the institutions that I attended, that was not how I wanted to come across. I was trying to say that I didn't receive an education while attending school because I DIDN'T PUT FORTH the EFFORT. I would have felt ungrateful if I didn't attend because it was all there for me (and in that sense it was very easy.) I wasn't inspired and wasn't interested in making that knowledge useful in my life. I was doing it for the label itself.
My husband, on the other hand, is NOT interested in this discussion whatsoever. He was not interested in walking and would never flaunt anything because he is completely opposite of me. He is humble. And doesn't care what anyone (including his wife) thinks of him because he is comfortable BEING.. without any attachments. And that's why I am crazy about him (and proud of him for doing ALL that he does.)
To say that I don't believe in labels (or label myself) is a lie.. because my life [and blog] is full of them. I try to say that I don't want to fit into a "rich" category by placing myself in a "down to earth" or "realistic" category.. and of course, neither of those define who I am and always keep me separated from others who I don't see as the "same" as me. You're right, Dee, we sound stupid to trying to label ourselves as humble in our cercumstances.
Anyway, this may seem like a lot of mumbo-jumbo to those of you who were just interested in having a light conversation about graduation. but THIS is education for me. Thanks for a good discussion and keep the comments coming if aren't ready to move on.
oh and by the way.. I changed my "married to a handsome attorney" comment to "don't hate me because I'm beautiful."
I feel much better about it and believe I am moving in the right direction.. Gotta break away from those status symbols and seek for humility.
last comment, I promise. I really don't want to get labeled as the girl who doesn't know how to spell, so I need to point out that I do know how to spell "cercumstances"
C-I-R-C-U-M-S-T-A-N-C-E-S circumstances
and THAT's what I learned in college.
Janet, I do believe you are crazy. Crazy intelligent, crazy thoughtful, and just plain crazy :). And THAT, my friend, is why you got 500 hits on your blog the other day. There aren't a lot of people out there that are able to communicate their thoughts as well or profoundly as you. And what I love is that this is not some crazy topic no one's ever heard of. All of your posts are about everyday stuff that is completely brought to life in a way that is so relateable to EVERYONE but it is not boring, it is enlightening and positive, and makes me THINK. There is something refreshing about that.
I actually read this post a while ago but didn't have a chance to comment... first congrats to Cindy and the second thing I wanted to say is now that Aaron is the big lawyer and you'll be rolling in the money... your kids will still be humble because you are and you know how to teach them that. I worry about that though too. Good luck at Aaron's Grandpa's funeral. So many death talk lately, I swear.
Post a Comment